Raiding Rules Meeting 31July2009

[Bene Sai Riama]

This will be updated during the meeting. Here is tonight's agenda based on what has been said over the last couple of weeks.

Attendance
--Signing Up
FIRST POLICY: After the last day of the raid, Betheny will post on WoW calendar what day the next raid will start. You will have until before the raid starts to confirm, deny, or wait-list your position in the raid. More than ten people will be invited to a ten-man raid. Two healers and two tanks will be taken; the other six will be dps.

--Being Late
FIRST POLICY: If a person is late, they are not given preference. We are currently on a first-come, first-serve basis for your position in the raid. The first two tanks, first two healers, and first six others will be chosen over those who were not on time.

--Missing a raid
FIRST POLICY: If you miss a raid after signing up for one, you will be replaced. This does not affect your future raid status. Missing a raid will not count against your looting privileges.

Loot
--Roll Structure
FIRST POLICY: All green loot will go to the enchanter to be disenchanted and the materials will be placed in the guild bank. If you have an alternate character who can use the pieces, it is your responsibility to speak up about the piece before it is disenchanted. If the piece is disenchanted, you have no claim over the materials. The materials will not be rolled for. All purple loot will be rolled for for a maximum of three times. The first roll will be for those who are trying to gear up their main spec. If the piece applies to your main spec, you may roll for the purple piece in the first roll. You may do this once until all others who share your needs have also received a piece If no one needs it for their main spec, the piece will be sent to an off-spec roll. This roll will allow for people to gain armor for a spec other than what they usually use. If the piece is not needed from either the main or off specs of the group, the piece will go to the enchanter and the materials will be rolled for. Token pieces can only be rolled on by the classes named by the token. If more than one token piece drops for the same set of people, anyone who has won a token piece may not roll on another piece. For all loot drops, one person may not upgrade the same slot more than once during any given raid and are limited to one ring and one trinket per raid unless no one else in the group can use the pieces.

--Main Spec
FIRST POLICY: The main specs have first choice on loot. The main spec of a character does not have to be the spec currently used in the raid. The purpose of the raid is to upgrade the gear of the main specs of participants. It is the responsibility of the participants to declare their main specs during the course of the raid to ensure they are being geared properly.

--Off Spec
FIRST POLICY: The off specs have second choice on loot. The off spec of a character is the spec less frequently used by the person. It is the responsibility of the participants to declare their off spec during the course of the raid should their characters be able to use a piece of loot at debate. At no time does an off spec overshadow a main spec.

--Token
FIRST POLICY: Tokens can be rolled on by any class named in the token piece. The pieces must be an upgrade for the character.

--Need
FIRST POLICY: There will be a need roll for the main spec and off spec rolls. Those who could use the piece as an absolute upgrade are encouraged to use the need button. Those who see the piece as a minimal upgrade should not use the Need button unless they are the only person who could use it as an upgrade. Anyone who cannot use the piece are not allowed to use the Need button.

--Greed
FIRST POLICY: Greed should be used by those who are not able to use the piece or the piece is a minimal upgrade.

Gear
It is the responsibility of the players who want to come to raids to research upgrades for their gear that will make them minimally acceptable. Acceptable requirements for gear will depend on the other participants in the group. The guild will help all those who have researched their gear obtain gear. If you are not sure how to research your gear or are not sure where to go next, please ask and we will help you.

[Bene Sai Riama]

LOL nah, they're talking about people like me who are like, "Dang it! Anyone have any pots?"

[Bene Sai Riama]

Most are not in favor of punishing people who cannot be there due to time zone changes and emergencies.

[Puddin]

My suggestion: Tweak current system by:

1) Stating main spec at either:
a) beginning of raid
b) beginning of lockout
c) spec you are in during that raid/asked to come as
2) Change Need roll to Main Spec Roll
3) Up Main Spec roll to 2 wins
4) If all main specs have gotten all wins, the roll total goes back to 0 and starts over
5) Keep greed rolls the same, as off spec
6) Keep token rolls the same

This is all we need, not complex, friendly to ALL players

[Kuvich]

Personally, I like the idea that Mhak, T, and Brad were going with. I don't really like the all-up-to-chance way... I feel with what they proposed, everyone gets a fair share.

I don't really look at it as penalizing those who came late, just rewarding those who came early/on time.

Also, I say no to claiming any gear. If we walk in saying, "I call dibs on -insert item here-," we are going to start butting head real quickly.

_______________________________

Here's Darvando's input:

I guess I liked the one with one need for your main spec only. If you win you can't roll again if another piece drops for your spec unless nobody else needs/can use it. If someone wins a roll on a purple even though a monster dropped it... that is a need roll.

I also think once everyone's had a turn, the whole thing resets and you get another need.

[Mhakhoz]

A good place to see what gear is good for you is wow-loot.com. For Naxx it grids the equipment that is best for your class and spec.

[Mhakhoz]

I think any system that we use will be fair. Most of our group are great people and are not whiners. I think as long as Main specs are geared first then all will work out. The token system should be that once you receive a token item you should not get another if there is someone who has not received one yet no matter when it is ,during a lockout or 4 weeks from now. We are trying to gear everyone. People should research their token gear and see if it is an upgrade before rolling on it. Research your equipment and look for upgrades. It doesnt take much. If you go to wow-heroes.com you can see all of your equipment and search for upgrades. It will link to wowhead and the search goes on. If you are prepared ahead of time we can start downing these quarters 2 a night.

[Cristopia]

my opinion... one item and one token... main spec first

people get one item and one token unless the item is gonna go to waste. Main spec gets preference over off spec. I feel its greedy of people to roll on gear after they have gotten an item when others can use it also. This will help spread the love so to speak.

[Puddin]

I think some things that need to be decided or discussed to help clarify what the loot system will do are:

1) The definition of 'core' group. Although we have a 'core' group that goes on most of the raids, I do not think we hold to the same idea of 'core' as other guilds. Raiding guilds have a 'core' group that is usually their #1 team, break-in team, progression team...whatever you want to call it. We are not a raiding guild so those descriptions do not work. So therefore, we don't have a 'core' group that needs to get geared over everyone else. Our 'core' gets geared from shear repetition and chance for rolls on loot. Can someone back me up on this description?

2) Once this is defined, on wether we have a progression team vs 5-6 regulars on every raid that make our 'core', we can determine looting styles.

3) *IF* we determine that we are not a raiding guild and don't have a progression team, then I think we can see that these loot systems are overly complicated and are geared to raiding guilds that push certain members over others. IE, the loot position system that penalized newcomers by placing them last etc.

4) *IF* we determine that we are a raiding guild, then you will need an enforced raid loot system that gives perks to those that attend, and perks to those that are on time (thereby pushing loot to the 'core' and virtually penalizing newcomers).

5) It has been my exerience as raid leader for two guilds, one in EQ for two years, one in WoW for two years, that any system that tries to be both, results in guild conflict, added stresses to an affil or alliance, and ultimately the mass migration of members to where they are happy again.

So, with these five points, I firmly believe that we are NOT a raiding guild or affil, and that although we have a core of players that attend the raids, we should not put in place a raiding guild loot system, or parts of one. Raid loot should be open and easy to understand, newcomers should be allowed equal chance of loot to ANY encounter they participate in. The 'core' will be become geared through sheer repetition and all raid attendees will get what they earn.

This is not unlike how America has worked for many years (until now, but we won't get into that), where everyone had an equal chance, and hard work earned rewards. Changing the law to either force loot socialization or loot 'class exclusion' would be counter-intuitive to us!

--back to checking email from work while on vacation!

[Liittlebit]

... So what was decided?